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Guest
Starting Member
USA
17 Posts |
 Posted - 07/24/2006 : 08:06:08
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Hi!
My name is yuval and i live in tel aviv. My family is from Haifa. This period is very frustrating for me as a peace activist, when the entire country seems so sure that this war is entirely just.
for most people here It is very hard to feel for the lebanese people, when so many rockets are being fired on our houses and families. many claim that lebanon did nothing to stop the hizbolla, and now we have to do it.
I was wondering who can tell me, Does the pervailing opinion that nothing but violence will solve the Hizbolla situation true? I always believed that violence is not the answer, but what exactly will ever pacify them? does anyone see any kind of solution that will end this?
Yuval
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Guest
Starting Member
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 08:27:37
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I believe there will be bo peace without violence.
There certainly will be no peace as long as there is a jewish state on the land of palestine. |
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july2006
Forum Admin
Israel
42 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 08:33:17
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Interesting view. I would appreciate though if you would at least say us who / where you are from (Israeli? Lebanese? Palestinian?), and also how can you tell when the violence will end and peace begin. From how you see it it seems that you are foreseeing constant war for all eternity.
Dimi |
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aliceinpalestine
Starting Member
4 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 01:24:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest
Hi!
My name is yuval and i live in tel aviv. My family is from Haifa. This period is very frustrating for me as a peace activist, when the entire country seems so sure that this war is entirely just.
for most people here It is very hard to feel for the lebanese people, when so many rockets are being fired on our houses and families. many claim that lebanon did nothing to stop the hizbolla, and now we have to do it.
I was wondering who can tell me, Does the pervailing opinion that nothing but violence will solve the Hizbolla situation true? I always believed that violence is not the answer, but what exactly will ever pacify them? does anyone see any kind of solution that will end this?
Yuval
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aliceinpalestine
Starting Member
4 Posts |
 Posted - 07/25/2006 : 01:30:52
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oops, sorry!
still learning the system.
i agree, no peace in this land and in this area as long as there is a jewish state. a sad fact, but true.
i am jewish, i live in the state of israel.
i do not agree with what "my" government is doing.
i really hope this war ends soon and people will be able to rebuild whatever remains from their lives. |
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mikemarcus
Starting Member
Israel
20 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 03:26:21
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I am Jewish. I grew up in London and moved to Israel a few years ago.
There is no peace until people stop killing eachother. Fuck religion, ethnicity, who owned what and when. It is far more simple. Killing leads to more killing.
I reach out my hand to all who want peace in Israel, Palestine and Lebanon. Who is willing to join me and speak up against all who kill and hate? Who is willing to help give the moral support to sodiers and fighters who believe they have no choice other than to folow orders? |
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treeofjudas
Starting Member
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 09:13:54
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Hello Yuval.
The question is not what will pacify Hezbollah. Hezbollah is led by violent people like Nasrallah, who have their own violent objectives, and their own political ideologies. The question is where does Hezbollah get its power? Why do people actively support its ideology? The rockets fired on Nahariah, Haifa, Zefat, etc., are fired by these people, not by Nasrallah, or by any of the leaders. And killing dozens of Hezbollah activists and hundreds of unrelated civilians is not going to motivate these people to stop following people like Nasrallah and shooting at Israel. It may remove them from action, but others will take their place, just like Hezbollah took Amal's place, which took Fatah's place, during the previous Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon.
Military violence may stop the Hezbollah. But it will solve nothing.
The struggle against war and its social source, capitalism, presupposes direct, active, unequivocal support to the oppressed colonial peoples in their struggles and wars against imperialism. A 'neutral' position is tantamount to support of imperialism.
* Leon Trotsky, "Resolution on the Antiwar Congress of the London Bureau" (July 1936)
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Guest
Starting Member
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 15:12:29
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Creativity is missing. Power ' more power' more power. What about a new' fresh, idea ? Let's think about a deal that will be a victory to all sides.
I am Amira, from Israel |
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le lezard
Moderator
Lebanon
20 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 17:06:11
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le lezard from lebanon.
hezbollah has so much power over its community because they gave people the infrastructures they lacked, they built hospitals, schools, houses... they pay for whatever is needed, and they can do so because we have no real government. all politicians can think of in lebanon is how to steal money from the people.
as long as we'll have that, we cannot expect much.
Hassan Nasrallah is not the real problem. hezbollah came when the lebanese army proved to be useless and helpless face to Israel, and it stayed and took care of the neglected shiites.
if our government is so weak, how do you expect anything good to come out of this?
i was afraid of hezbollah before that war started, as most of the lebanese were. but now i can see why so much people look up to him (i'm not saying i do). Hezbollah is paying all the medical bills of all the injured in this war, and it is the only military force capable of doing something (the ship that drowned) to "defend" lebanon.
now i don't know what to think anymore. i want peace, i want to be able to go to jerusalem, i don't accept the hate i'm living in. i totally disagree with hezbollah's views, but i can understand them. i didn't before. and that scares me even more. |
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eymich
Starting Member
Israel
2 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 01:11:27
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Hi all,
I am Michal from rehovot, israel.
Yesterday i participated in a dharma meeting about us all in this war.
I liked a few things that were said there.
Peace begins inside us. Before we are at peace with who we are and what and why we do it, so long as we are against parts of us (the hater, the revenger, the angry one, the sad and pessimistic one), we will find it hard to make peace with others.
Someone also said: peacs is always here, like cracks in the wall of war and hatred. It's a state of mind that brings on the right action. And it dosn't have to be big.
yomtov, michal
Ask your heart where it wants to go, and follow it.
Arnold Mindell |
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mikemarcus
Starting Member
Israel
20 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 01:45:05
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Amira
Heres a creative idea for you. Make friends with "the other side". The powers that be want us to hate eachother. Not for our interests but for their own. Here on the internet we are free of the idealogical manipulation and propoganda which twists the way we think every time we turn on our television, open a magazine or meet a friend in the street. Here we can connect with eachother. We can show respect and understanding.
Any government needs somthing to rule otherwise they are powerless. You as a citisen are the basis of your governments power. You are the foundation that this war is built on. Just like a building needs a solid base to stand tall, the government, army and all the institutions causing this horror rely on you to support them.
What if we used the internet as a means to slip out from under the building above us? What if we became unsuitable foundations unable (or unwilling) to support this war which rests on our heads? The powers can only build their war if they have some support from below.
What can we do? We can do exactly what Kadima/Likud/Tsahal/Hamas/Fatah/Hisbullah are desparately scared of. What is it that they want to stop us from doing at all costs? Talk to eachother! Not about hate, who's just, who's evil, who killed who, who owned what and when. Talk to eachoter about life, family, love and pain. What you did last night? What makes you passionate? What makes you angry? Make friends with eachother and peace will slowly spread from the base up.
My name is Mike. I lost my job a few weks ago. I have another job lined up but they are taking a long time to close something with me and I am not sure if they are as serious as I am. Today I am stressed. Its hot and humid and I am sitting at home with nothing to do. I am trying not to spend money because I dont know how long I will be unemployed for. The war is making me feel sick - and guilty because whereas for me it is just a concept (I live in Tel Aviv where the bombs dont land) for my friends in Lebanon, Gaza and the north of Israel, it is real. I try to relate to their fear but know that I cant. My best friend left to live in New York last night. She will probably not return. I am sick of being single although I know it is becase of my inadequecies and not because I havent met the right person yet. All week I have been asking the same question: "Why are you here Mike?"
Maybe tomorrow I will be happy. |
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Guest
Starting Member
USA
17 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 03:10:02
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Dear Forum members,
I am so glad you started this.
I have so much to write and don't know how to start.
My name is Miriam and I live in Jerusalem. My husband has been drafted last Wednesday and posted in the territories
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My father fought in Lebanon, so did my brother and husband. My son is 2 years old. I don't want him to fight in Lebanon, or to be at a check post as a soldier of an occupation army.
I feel ashamed and angry for the humanitarian catastrophic situation my army has inflicted upon the citizens of Lebanon. I wish there was something we can do (send supplies through the red cross to Cyprus ???).
I am also confused because I don't know what should be done. Hezbollah will not rest as long as Israel exists. As long as they are backed up by Syria and Iran we will keep having more of these wars in Lebanon. It is only a matter of time or the right provocation and the American interests at that point of time.
Where are the rest of the Arab Nations ? Where are the many intellectual and well to do Lebanese living in the US and France ? what do they think of this ? couldn't they do anything to help strengthen Lebanon and repress Hezbolla's hold ? le lezard, can we do anything to help ?
Mike, I am in your exact unemployment situation ! hang in there.
I'll try to log in latter hopefully with real ideas.
From Jerusalem
Miriam
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mikemarcus
Starting Member
Israel
20 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 04:21:16
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Miriam:
What if your husband had refused to go to his reserve duty (miluim)? What if a hundred people refused? What if a thousand people refused? |
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Alteriamo
Starting Member
Israel
6 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 04:41:17
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Hear hear, Mike. And hold fast.
Dimi
viam inveniam aut faciam: either find a way or make one |
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Alteriamo
Starting Member
Israel
6 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 04:44:57
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As for refusing - we all know that unless something huge happens (i.e. the IDF will hit even more civilians than usual, or some equivalent of the Sabra and Shatilla massacre will occur), there is no chance that the refuseniks will amount to more than a few scores.
Aviva, I hope your husband is safe and I wish him all the very well.
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viam inveniam aut faciam: either find a way or make one |
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le lezard
Moderator
Lebanon
20 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2006 : 06:10:12
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violence is not the answer in a perfect world, but this a though world. both Hezbollah and Israel strarted their history with violence, and are just showing us more and more terror and blood. Will a third party, even more violent, come to stop this madness? I don't think so, I don't wish so.
In a democratic way, we could just wait for the next elections and try to vote for the peaceful candidate. But that won't do it, because no one is really peaceful + strong enough. And our people, israeli and lebanese, are just not ready to vote for such a person.
+ in the meantime israeli husbands are sent to a possible death and lebanese civilians are taking the blows.
In a socialist way, we could all march out and call for an end of violence. but all is not enough, and and end of this violence is not the end of all violence.
In a pragmatic way, we can send humanitarian aid and money hoping it can arrive. We can even go to help the people whom I assure you will not even be grateful and wil only spit hatred at you (that's what I'm seeing in the refugies camp in Lebanon).
so I'm kind of short on ideas. I don't have any work either, and in my field, the end of the war is not where I start again earning money, it will take much more time to get people to trust Lebanon again.
If there were an available answer to peace in the middle east, someone would have given it. It is not in anyone's interest to have peace.
Since it's only in our interest, we, the bloggers, the people, the aggressors and the victims, the mothers and the husbands, we have to come up with something. Something real and something within our reach.
I'm not old enough, not wise enough. All I can do is listen and talk, maybe one of you will be wise and charismatic enough to have us follow him or her. |
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from tel aviv
